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| pryuen |
 Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:05 am |
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Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Posts: 46910
Location: Hong Kong/China
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So 2 years after her dramatic conversion to Christianity, Chai Ling (柴玲), one of the foremost student leaders in the 1989 Tiananmen Square protests and two-time Nobel Peace Prize nominee, has declared in a new op-ed published on the Huffington Post that she forgives all those responsible for the crackdown, including Deng Xiaoping and Li Peng.
Did she have a transplant of her heart, or purely do that to promote her new book, A Heart for Freedom???
Quote:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/chai-ling/tiananmen-china_b_1565235.html
Chai Ling
Founder of All Girls Allowed
'I Forgive Them': On the 23rd Anniversary
of the Tiananmen Square Massacre in 1989
06/04/2012
Two decades ago, the Chinese government's crackdown in Tiananmen Square left hundreds of my fellow students dead. Since then a new generation has grown up in China, and many of them are kept in the dark about what happened on this day in China's history.
To me it seems like just yesterday. I began that day with great hope and anticipation for a new China, but it ended as a day of unspeakable sorrow. Now, 23 years have passed. Many things have changed: people grew older, and some key Communist Party leaders from 1989 have passed away. But many people -- whether they say this openly or not -- know that this chapter of China's history has not closed yet.
How will this chapter be written? How will the story end? The world still watches China with great interest, as the recent cases of Chen Guangcheng and Bo Xilai proved. For the past 23 years, I too, have tried to understand the meaning of Tiananmen. I vividly recall that last hour: standing at Tiananmen Square, watching in disbelief as a disaster unfolded around us.
As I was writing A Heart for Freedom, I finally understood. There could only be two futures for China: an outcome of continued fear, or a destiny that opens the door to true freedom -- and forgiveness.
In the Hebrew scriptures, King David's son Absalom rebelled and took the throne from his own father by force. Even in the face of this betrayal, David forgave his son. He told his generals that they should show mercy if they overcame the rebel army and captured the wayward son: "For my sake, deal gently with young Absalom." (2 Samuel 18 ) But when Absalom was found alone and vulnerable, the generals chose to ignore David and kill Absalom -- thus continuing the pattern of violence.
I know that those responsible for oppression in China will also find themselves vulnerable one day, just like Absalom did. And so the question stands: When that day comes, will China continue with a pattern of harsh retribution, or a will it begin a path of grace, mercy and compassion?
You may wonder how China's seemingly immovable leadership will ever be vulnerable. The answer is: it is human, it has always been vulnerable, and it is more vulnerable now than ever before.
There is little true security in China, even for leaders. Power, money and military or police forces can give a few people temporary wealth and stability, but these things cannot provide lasting security.
In 1989, the number two leader Zhao Ziyang lost all his power and freedom for disagreeing with Deng Xiaoping's decision to use force against students at Tiananmen. Later, so did a strong hardliner who initially supported the move: former Beijing mayor Chen Xitong was sentenced to 16 years in jail. And now Bo Xilai has fallen from grace. These leaders may have looked invincible from the outside, but they lost everything. As Chen Xitong confessed recently in a Chinese interview, "In all those high level political battles, each side is trying to outdo the other side by being more cunning, more malicious, and more brutal."
The system in China suppresses humanity and compassion. It imprisoned and persecuted Chen Guangcheng, a blind attorney, for advocating on behalf of 130,000 women who underwent forced abortions and forced sterilizations. The climate of fear and self-preservation can affect all levels of society. A woman named Mei Shunping testified last month that two of the five forced abortions she suffered in China came after her co-workers reported her pregnancies to officials. Last fall, over a dozen people walked right past a dying toddler after she was run over by a van in a street.
This is the atmosphere that we students wanted to see end at Tiananmen. It is painful for me to remember what happened on that June 4th, 1989, when I witnessed the death of a dream. I still mourn for what "could have been." And for a long time, I battled bitterness and anger whenever I thought of the leaders who chose to take a path of destruction that day.
But then I was confronted with the example of Jesus. He loved women, children, the poor and the oppressed in a way that was radically countercultural -- and he called me to do the same.
He also forgave the very people who ridiculed him and nailed him to a cross: "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do." (Luke 24:34)
And again, he called me to do the same.
Because of Jesus, I forgive them. I forgive Deng Xiaoping and Li Peng. I forgive the soldiers who stormed Tiananmen Square in 1989. I forgive the current leadership of China, who continue to suppress freedom and enforce the brutal One Child Policy.
I pray that a culture of grace will arise in China, giving all people dignity and humanity. I pray that the China's current leaders will follow Jesus and act with mercy and compassion. I pray that those who have suffered under oppression will not seek vengeance -- like King David's soldiers did when they killed Absalom -- but have the courage to forgive. Forgiveness does not justify wrong, but rather yields the power of judgment to God.
I understand such forgiveness is countercultural. Yet it is only a small reflection of the forgiveness that Jesus gave, and I was filled with peace when I followed him in forgiving. When forgiveness arises, a lasting peace can finally reign. |
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| pryuen |
| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:16 am |
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Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Posts: 46910
Location: Hong Kong/China
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The other student leader in exile, Chai Ling's former compatriot, Wang Dan 王丹, after reading Chai Ling's declaration, quickly distanced himself from her, and made the following post/announcement on his Facebook:
Wang Dan on his Facebook wrote:
緊急聲明：
報載柴玲發表聲明，表示原諒鄧小平，李鵬，認為只有寬恕，才有和平。甚至還表示每天為他們祈禱。
對柴玲的個人信仰導致的這個意見，我表示尊重，但是完全不能同意。我認為，在殺人者還沒有任何懺悔，道歉，甚至還在繼續殺人的時候，被害方的原諒是沒有根據的。這樣的原諒，對六四死難者是很大的不公平。
我希望外界知道，柴玲的這番談話只代表她自己以及她的信仰，並不能代表廣大的八九同學。
我也公開呼籲柴玲正確區分個人的信仰與是非價值判斷這兩件事。
Urgent announcement:
Media reports have carried Chai Ling's declaration of forgiveness for Deng Xiaoping and Li Peng, saying she believes that only tolerance will lead to peace. She also says that she is praying daily for them.
I have full respect for Chai Ling's personal faith which led her to this conclusion, but I cannot fully agree with her. I believe that if the killers haven't shown any remorse, or apologised, and are continuing to kill others, victims have no basis for forgiveness. This sort of forgiveness is a great injustice to the victims of the June 4.
I would like the world to know that Chai Ling's words only represent herself and her faith, and they do not speak for the bulk of the 1989 students.
I would also like to urge Chai Ling to make a clear distinction between her personal faith and the judgement of what's right and wrong.
SO WHO DO YOU SIDE WITH ???   |
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| Dr. No |
| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:22 am |
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Joined: 22 Jul 2005
Posts: 6535
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I am leery of Chia Ling; I consider her the ultimate self-serving opportunist, a cameleon she has vascillated from being a Chinese student revolutionary,
to a Pro-Taiwan advocate, then an Internet enterpreneur in the USA and
now a supposed born-again Christian in the USA She shifts to whichever direction the wind blows  Quote: In the Hebrew scriptures,
Wang Dan on his Facebook wrote: I would also like to urge Chai Ling to make a clear distinction between her personal faith and
the judgement of what's right and wrong. ditto for me |
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| temuchin |
| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:34 am |
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Joined: 01 Apr 2004
Posts: 7918
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Pryuen, there doesn't have to be a distinction between her personal faith and her judgement of right and wrong. For many there are but it's equally valid to have faith inform your perceptions of political reality.
Look at a Moranus. He has no principles and no core beliefs. He is so lost he tried Falun gong and is an empty moral sponge with no backbone who is so desperate for guidance that he latches onto whatever "authority figure" he sees on TV. His entire moral system is echoing whatever he's told. He cannot even articulate the reasons for his positions or opinions. Everything is him simply buying whatever someone "in authority" has told him to think.
Keep in mind that faith formed the basis for most movements of conscience, whether it be American Civil Rights, Missionary development of the 3rd world, Abolitionism, Woman's Suffrage etc.
as for Chai Ling "forgiving" Deng... regardless of her state of forgiveness the world has moved on. it's hard to think of something with less meaning, unless it's Moranus stating "I am leery" of this or that, or talking about what is credible to him. No one gives a ****** about that. It's like posting, a monkey believes that tomorrow will be a rainy day. Really a monkey? That's important information... who gives a ****** about random nonsense?
The bottom line for both China and the West is what the hard liners did with their power when given the opportunity purging their enemies. Because China has developed, history will look less harshly on their actions. JFK stole the election but because of the Cuban Missile Crisis, Civil Rights, the Space Program etc that crime has a smaller footprint. The same goes for Tiananmen. |
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| Dr. No |
| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:04 pm |
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Joined: 22 Jul 2005
Posts: 6535
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temuchin wrote: has no principles and no core beliefs. . |
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| pryuen |
| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:41 pm |
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Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Posts: 46910
Location: Hong Kong/China
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Well it seemed Chai Ling's declaration had also met opposition from the other student leader, Wuerkaixi 吾尔开希.
This is what Wuerkaixi told reporters in Taiwan.
Quote:
http://www.zaobao.com/zg/zg120608_006_1.shtml
此外，目前在台湾的吾尔开希也表示反对柴玲的举措。他说，23年后的今天，他在为当年牺牲的伙伴深感悲痛之际，对于屠杀者的愤恨仍难消解。
他说，宽宥和谅解是在正义是非厘清后，罪人祈求宽恕之时应有的态度，这不仅是宗教价值观、也是普世价值。
他说，他无法在正义是非得到匡正之前原谅镇压者，无法在被害人原谅他们之前原谅。
Wuerkaixi who resides currently in Taiwan also came forward to oppose Chai Ling. He said, now 23 years later, while he was still deeply saddened with the sacrifice of his compatriot students, he still found his resentment towards the murderers (ordering the massacre) difficult to digest.
He said forgiveness and understanding is the proper attitude, but it only came after justice had been uphold and right and wrong had been rectified, and the sinners begged for forgiveness; this is not only religious value, but universially accepted values as well.
He said he just cannot forgive the suppressors before justice had been restored/uphold, and his forgiveness will only come when the victims (of the massacre) or their kins had forgiven the suppressors. |
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| Dr. No |
| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:09 pm |
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Joined: 22 Jul 2005
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temuchin wrote: has no principles and no core beliefs. . (InO, LA, USC Neighborhood) just for the sake of arguing |
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| pryuen |
| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:20 pm |
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Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Posts: 46910
Location: Hong Kong/China
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LOL !!!!   
Dr. Moranus is at it again.......
Just like a parrot repeating the only phrases that were taught to him again and again like a broken record !!!!!!  |
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| battousai |
| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:44 am |
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Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 2991
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well, chai ling is a Christianity, therefore i understand why she is saying what she said. However, I would have to see how "faithful" she is to the reglion to further accept her sincerely or just another cheap move.
吾尔开希, is right if ur not into christinanity or any kind of reglion. |
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| Malorkayel |
| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:04 am |
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Joined: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 8915
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These radical rebellious types never get along with each other. Often they are too rigid in their beliefs to compromise and work together.
They all emigrate to USA, but they never accomplish anything. They eventually write a book and hope to get rich off their "sacrifice"
People stronger YMM personalities can't get along either. NYCphil wanted to hang out in NY, but you see no one wants to do it. |
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